On June 21, the Ideal L9 was officially released, and the one-hour launch event was clearly not enough to cover all the product details of the Ideal L9. Fortunately, after the launch event, we had the privilege of attending the Ideal Car Media Communication Meeting, where top executives such as Li Xiang answered a series of in-depth questions from users, including future model plans, whether Ideal ONE will continue to receive OTA updates, order status, and HUD.
Executives attending the Ideal Car Communication Meeting:
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Ideal Car Founder, Chairman and CEO: Li Xiang
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VP of Ideal Car Intelligent Space: Gou Xiaofei
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VP of Ideal Car Intelligent Driving: Lang Xianpeng
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VP of Ideal Car Whole Vehicle Electric: Liu Liguo
After the communication meeting, we exclusively interviewed Ideal L9 Product Manager Zhang Xiao and uncovered some exclusive content that was not mentioned during the launch event. Without further ado, let’s get to the point.
- Ideal L9 Product Manager: Zhang Xiao
Left to right: Li Xiang, Lang Xianpeng, Gou Xiaofei, Liu Liguo
Trade-offs in Configuration
Q: The Ideal L9 replaces the instrument panel with HUD. How did you think about this? Why did you choose a regular HUD instead of an AR-HUD?
Li Xiang: In the past, HUD had a serious problem. Most car companies treated it as an option, and it could only be selected on a few models. But we found that many people viewed HUD as a showy thing, and what users really need is for HUD to effectively replace the instrument panel. Whatever key information appears on the instrument panel should also be displayed on the HUD, at least allowing users to select it.
We are probably the first in the world to present the complete intelligent driving interaction information, including navigation, speed, and speed limit, on the HUD. We use the Qualcomm Snapdragon 8155 processing chip to directly render and control the HUD, which is probably the minority. Many HUDs have poor visual effects and slow response in various environments because they are processing the HUD with a very ordinary MCU. We are probably the minority here. I dare not say we are the first to use 8155 to directly render and control HUD. Therefore, it feels really better than the instrument panel when using it.Regarding why we did not use AR-HUD, many people may know that I have deep research on AR and VR. I think in a dynamic 3D space, such as when driving, it’s difficult for a normal human to tolerate another 3D space appearing, which could cause mental confusion. This would result in two problems. If I were to use AR, I would have to either make it a true 3D interaction mode, where interaction is performed in another 3D space nested within the first, but I think it would be unbearable for anyone since it would basically cause a breakdown of the human nervous perception system. If it’s not done this way and VR is used as a flat 2D effect, then I think a HUD effect specially designed for 2D planes would be better and cheaper. HUD cannot be felt in a static experience, but everyone will know what it feels like after a trial drive, and we still need to use specific real driving experiences as an example.
Let me give an example. Some cars use naked-eye 3D on the instruments. I don’t know if you’ve tested driving a car with naked-eye 3D. Almost every time you look from the screen to the front, your brain will basically crash and need to switch. This is when a 3D space is nested inside another 3D space and when there is a switch in perception between different 3D spaces in the same space. It’s the same as playing Nintendo 3D. Many people will switch it to 2D, and even advise people not to distinguish the effect of installing naked-eye 3D because it’s dynamic.
Q: Regarding the sound configuration, I noticed there are 21 speakers, and two vibrators on the second row. Why aren’t there any vibrators on the first row? If six people are watching a movie or sports event in the car when it’s still, there’s still a demand for vibrators in the first row.
Zhang Xiao: Vibrators are very disruptive to driving. The whole viewing experience in the back row is the best, regardless of lighting environment, sound, or space. Therefore, vibrator placement definitely needs to be considered first on the second row. The driver in the first row does not want to be shaken when driving, and cannot watch movies while driving anyway.
(It is possible to add a vibrator to the front row), and it’s not technically difficult. But in consideration of the overall scenario and ROI, it seems less necessary. In addition, vibrators also encroach on space. If placed in the front row, the thickness of the seat backrest must be increased and moved backward slightly, which would impact the second-row space. Taking these factors into account, this configuration only goes up to the second row.
Q: In terms of outdoor scenes, the launch did not mention outdoor scenes such as camping. Do you have any plans for this?
Zhang Xiao: Camping is definitely not a problem for ONE, L9, or even ONE. But ultimately we did not add a towing hitch. The complexity is that first, the rear bumper beam must be replaced. The current rear bumper beam is not capable of towing because its strength is used for collision buffering rather than towing.Secondly, the road environment and laws and regulations in China are not as sound as in Europe. After towing a trailer, all electronic and electrical controls are completely new logic, including the possibility of blocking the camera, interfering with sensors, and affecting radar. To achieve a good RV experience, the signal must be connected, not just a physical connection. Electrical connections and control signals must be transmitted, and the entire vehicle’s ESP needs to provide assistance in emergency situations and surround view when reversing, all of which will be affected. It is a very complex system engineering.
To make a good product, a large price must be paid. We contacted China’s TOP level RV company and have proposals. But how big is the user demand? If improvements to the anti-collision beam for the trailer lead to a significant increase in weight and cost for these low-frequency scenarios, it may not be worth it.
Q: Why isn’t the rear entertainment screen optional? Is there no controversy within the company?
Zhang Xiao: Because L9 is a flagship model, the flagship configuration should be fully loaded. If the rear entertainment screen is not used, it can be folded up.
Q: The ideal L9 is a full-size SUV, but why wasn’t rear-wheel steering used in the end?
Li Xiang: Rear-wheel steering is not possible. Basically, all rear-wheel steering solutions currently used are pre-existing supply solutions used worldwide. Only a few companies can do this, and they are not willing to change for us. Our structure also does not have any ready-made suppliers who can come and do it for us, and these suppliers are not willing to develop for us, so we didn’t dwell on it. We continue to find ways to optimize the turning radius in this structure. Although the ideal L9 has a larger body, the turning radius is no different from the ideal ONE.
Q: The rearview mirror in the ideal L9 vehicle is partially obscured. Why wasn’t a streaming rearview mirror used?
The rearview mirror in the car is not obstructed. After the second-row screen is lowered, only a small part is obstructed, which does not affect the rear view. You can check it during the test drive. In addition, we do not need a streaming rearview mirror because there is a large screen in the cabin, and we have a dedicated full-screen rearview function. We can meet any user’s needs for rearview mirrors, including safety needs.
Body/Powertrain
Q: Regarding chassis control, yesterday it was said that our car can compete with the Porsche Cayenne. We also know that data and experiments accumulated by other manufacturers in chassis tuning are very relevant. As a relatively new brand with a self-developed algorithm, how can we dare to say that we can compete with the Cayenne?
(Note: The image associated with this question is embedded in the previous section and not in this one.)## 刘立国
For driving experience, it is not only related to our CDC (continuously adjustable damping shock absorber system) algorithm. Firstly, in the early structural design, our team is the top team in China, and some of the most outstanding talents in China are in our team. Nevertheless, in terms of the architectural hardware and structural design scheme, we still cooperate with the top international company. Secondly, concerning the CDC shock absorber, we did not start from scratch. We delivered a joint project with Porsche engineering. We use the same structure and algorithm as Cayenne, and we combine more in-car sensors, including future laser radar for ground scanning, which allows us to identify the road more accurately. Our algorithm in the car is still passive control, based on feedback control. In the next step, we have already connected with the interaction between vision and laser radar on the system. It will identify the road in advance, making the comfort control relatively more straightforward than passive control.
In summary, firstly, our team is the top chassis team in China, including cooperation with the top international engineering companies. Secondly, we did not start from scratch for control algorithms. We delivered a lot of money to achieve this kind of white box delivery based on previous research. Thirdly, we integrate sensors better into the system architecture level, and there will be better upgrades in the future. Because all of the code and algorithms are in our hands, combined with more external sensor recognition, our comfort control will become better and better over time.
李想
Ideal car has four independent AI and algorithm teams running, corresponding to four different scenarios. The largest is with Dr. Lang Xianpeng, the second-largest is with Gou Xiaofei. The third-largest is in Wang Yang’s internal system, and the fourth is with Liu Liguo’s team. We develop an internal system, including sales and factory systems, in Wang Yang’s department. We even wrote the system of the factory without purchasing from any supplier, which is rare in China. Most of the things in the factory are done with algorithms, including the control program of the robot, which is done with AI algorithms by ourselves, because we found that the control program of the robot purchased from outside is too bad and too expensive.
Regarding the control of the power amplifier, the working condition of the power amplifier, the suspension, and various predictions such as battery faults are all done by algorithms and artificial intelligence. Basically, this area of work is done by doctoral and postdoctoral talents. This is something we have been carefully preparing for over the past three years.If you look at the recruitment information, you can see that these four teams have been continuously hiring. We believe that the two most important purposes of intelligent electric vehicles are energy renewable and that the entire information will enter the three-dimensional artificial intelligence from the past two-dimensional, traditional PC Internet. Therefore, we have invested a lot of people, money, and energy on artificial intelligence and solving the problem of the three-dimensional world, which may be a big difference from traditional brands.
Q: Ideal ONE originally used a McPherson suspension system with a three-cylinder range extender. The main reason at that time was space limitations. Nowadays, four-cylinder engines and double-wishbones can be upgraded. Besides the advantage of a larger body, are there any other reasons for the L9?
Zhang Xiao: Actually, the L9 is not much wider than Ideal ONE. The reason why a larger motor and range extender can be arranged directionally is because the chassis and power system are self-developed. In the past, these things were like building blocks, and we had to adopt McPherson due to the lack of space. Now the L9 uses double wishbones, and is a very original double wishbone. Compared with the double wishbones of the Mercedes-Benz GLS and BMW X7, the double wishbones of the Ideal L9 are less inclined and thicker. Because they are longitudinal engines and do not require high width, they can provide a large space for the double wishbones. However, because Ideal uses a transverse engine and a five-in-one generator, all widths must be allocated to the suspension as much as possible, so the inclination of the double wishbones is not so great.
The size of the air spring also maximizes the use of space to ensure that both the double wishbones and air springs can fit. It is mainly the optimization of the internal structure. Otherwise, the same vehicle width still cannot accommodate them.
Q: Li Xiang previously analyzed the utilization of MPV longitudinal space on Weibo. How did the Ideal L9 think about the consideration of the third row and trunk space utilization?
Li Xiang: I think the core is actually that we don’t need to compare with the same level of SUV. The space of the same level of SUV is indeed too poor because they consider many predictions, including the structure of PHEV and the like, so the overall space utilization rate is very poor.
The premise here is that among the full-size products that use double wishbones at the front, five-link suspension at the rear, and air suspension, the core of our space design is still completely based on user needs. As you can see from the product video, although both the Ideal ONE and the Ideal L9 are 6-seaters, we invited older children to shoot the official promotional video for the Ideal L9. Because we believe that many Ideal ONE owners, and many users, their children will gradually grow up. Even if their children may have already attended junior high school or high school, they still hope to drive a car and take their family out to play. In fact, the Ideal L9 is for this group of people and for more people who drive medium to large SUVs, and it is a good upgrade choice.## About Intelligent Driving
Q: Regarding the ADAS indicator light, who came up with this idea for this generation of cars, and how do you view this matter?
Zhang Xiao: First of all, it must comply with laws and regulations. We have been internally following and participating in the preparation work of regulations. Domestic regulations are currently in the draft stage. When ADAS functions at level 3 or above are enabled, the light needs to be turned on to indicate the current status of the vehicle. The implicit meaning behind this is that when the responsibility for judging the car shifts from the driver to the vehicle, the car needs to look different. As for L2 responsibilities, they still lie with the person, as it is not yet possible to shift them to the car due to insufficient road environment, road regulations, and technical level.
Additionally, the regulatory color of this light is blue-green, which is a special color according to regulations. All lights inside and outside the car need to comply with regulatory requirements, including color and brightness. Additionally, its visibility is required in all four directions according to regulations. Therefore, you can see this light from the front, side, and back of the car.
Furthermore, the current regulations require that it cannot be turned on on public roads. Therefore, it can be turned on in automatic parking scenarios on non-public roads, such as in parking lots.
About the Cabin
Q: In the future, will the rear entertainment screen become a symbol of an ideal car model?
Zhang Xiao: Nobody is doing it now, or nobody is doing it very well. Will it become a symbol like the four-screen display in the future? The configuration needs to be verified by users. It cannot be something we boast about. We have constructed a user experience that we believe is relatively good.
Do users feel that it is worth the cost? We always pay attention to the usage rate of this product. If people don’t use it after buying it, then that won’t work. Therefore, we pay attention to the usage rate of this screen, the usage rate of each app inside it, and people’s preferences for usage. Then we look at how to iterate.
About the Market
Q: Was the user feedback collected immediately after the release of the Ideal L9? Can you share the order status on the day of the release?
Li Xiang: Regarding orders, they are definitely very good. The sales of the L9 will definitely exceed that of the Ideal ONE, even though the price is more than 100,000 yuan higher, and there is no problem with that. We won’t disclose specific numbers. New forces are relatively honest, while traditional manufacturers report numbers that are too vague. Let’s look at sales and delivery volume.
Most users have not seen the car yet. We started touring in more than ten cities today (Note: Interview date is June 22). We still hope to see more comprehensive information and broader samples before we can analyze various results.Q: The current model of the Ideal One is a 6-seater medium-sized SUV. The newly released Ideal L9 is also a 6-seater. Will there be any overlap in positioning? How was the product planning considered?
Li Xiang: From the perspective of positioning, users are most concerned not with how many seats a car has but with how much money they plan to spend. People always say how about making a 6-seater, but in fact, the Ideal One has been the top-selling 6-seater medium-sized SUV for many months, not only among such models but also the best-selling among all cars priced between 300,000 to 500,000 RMB for many months.
In the early days, when the Ideal One sold only several thousand units per month, people might have chosen it because they liked new energy vehicles or preferred more intelligent products. Some even said they were fans of Autohome (a popular Chinese automotive site) and continued to buy from Li Xiang after he started making cars. But when the monthly sales exceeded 10,000 units, the proportion of such consumers decreased, and more customers paid attention to the best choice in this price range.
Some people are worried that the sales of the Ideal One will decrease after the release of the Ideal L9, but this did not happen. The Ideal One’s sales rose again yesterday because buyers with budgets of 300,000 to 350,000 RMB still chose the Ideal One. As for someone who suddenly had a budget of 500,000 RMB but only had originally planned to spend 300,000 to 350,000 RMB, this group accounts for less than 10%, a relatively small proportion of the overall market. Users are very realistic, they want to see what is the best option in the 300,000 to 350,000 RMB price range.
We also believe that the price range above 400,000 RMB is a very healthy market. Especially in the early days, many of the technologies we used were very expensive, such as the 7.3.4 sound system. We need a relatively expensive car to reduce overall costs through economy of scale and promote it to cars with different price ranges in the future. This is a core decision.
As for product positioning, people always say that Ideal One’s users’ group targeting families is too narrow, but I think they lack basic theory and logical judgment. We have studied this matter long ago. I don’t believe anyone can conduct market research better than I did while at Autohome. As much as 89% of the purchasing group in the price range above 200,000 RMB is family users. But if I keep talking about the high-end market, nobody will listen to me. Even the team won’t know how to make products, and they may blindly create a presence in the product without direction and call it “high-end.”## Production Capacity and Supply Chain Situation
Q: I have two questions. Firstly, about production capacity, as the Changzhou factory’s planned capacity is 200,000 and the Ideal L9’s sales are expected to surpass the Ideal ONE, what are the plans for further capacity expansion, including when will the Beiqing factory begin production?
Li Xiang: In terms of production capacity, the Changzhou factory is able to meet our needs for future capacity expansion. For us, the biggest bottleneck in capacity is not our own factories, but the control of various supply chains around us. Therefore, we manage the entire R&D quality, including the manufacturing of core supply chains. This includes Ideal New Energy, which we hold a controlling stake in, our motors, the five-in-one power assembly mentioned earlier. We will begin production at both the Changzhou and Huixiang joint venture factories, including our car seat factory and multiple production lines in Liyang, Jiangsu province and Ningde Times.
On the other hand, after our IPO in 2020, we can now invest more money in R&D. In the past, we really didn’t have the money, but now that we do, we can really put more into it. Now, we can see that we have designed things like XCU and various motherboards ourselves. When we encounter problems with some chips, we actually have already designed the B-point chip when we were designing it, so when one supplier is out of stock, we can switch to another one. This is because our entire hardware design, driver layer, software layer, and algorithm layer are all in our own hands, which is actually the same as Tesla. We have been working hard to improve our supply chain capabilities over the past few years. If we don’t invest money, technology, and people into this area, it is impossible to sit and wait for the supply chain to improve.
Q: I have a question about the supply chain. You mentioned earlier that Ideal owns a company that produces range extenders, and that we have also chosen to self-develop our autonomous driving systems, as well as partner with joint ventures for our motors and batteries. Is this to ensure supply chain safety or to increase control over the supply chain? In the future, what are the key areas of our supply chain, and are we likely to use joint ventures or controlling stakes to manage them?# Li Xiang: The Two Key Aspects Here:
The first one is to solve the controllability of technology which I think is very important, and it will greatly improve our R&D efficiency; the second one is the supply. We need to keep the supply capacity under our control.
In the past, we had an embarrassing situation when it comes to our Ideal ONE. We told our suppliers that we could sell 10,000 vehicles a month, but some suppliers only placed orders for 3,000 vehicles, while others only had a production line for 1,000 vehicles. It was not until we actually started production that they gradually added production capacity. This was a problem we encountered.
In fact, our target volume is even larger. Including the cars that everyone will see next year and the year after, it is a sales space that exceeds everyone’s previous imagination. So when we tell a very good supplier that we can achieve this volume, he still does not believe it, and gives us a lot of discounts. Because in the past, people could not imagine that a large SUV could steadily sell 15,000 units a month, and it was because of the supply perspective. Compared to other people who don’t believe us, our best way is actually to form a joint venture, and then we don’t need to educate again.
Of course, although joint venture will have some early investment, the cost of each component will become lower, which is the advantage of joint venture. So the first benefit of a joint venture is to ensure that the technology is controllable, the second is to ensure the supply, and the third can also obtain some cost advantages. I think this is what traditional car companies also do. We don’t need to invent anything new, we just need to learn the best experience from traditional car companies and the industry.
On Cost Control
Q: Ideal L9 has a high configuration and a reasonable price, indicating that our cost control is relatively good. Could you please introduce how we achieve such good cost control?
Li Xiang: Anyone who produces products will study Apple, and Apple has two cores. The first is how to turn something very extreme luxury into something everyone can afford, and the second is to make very unique innovation in experience and technology. I think this is the core of everything at Apple, allowing you to spend a little more money and gain the ability that you couldn’t afford and didn’t dare to aspire to before. Our understanding of Apple is like this, and we will also insist on doing it in this way.
To give a very clear example, after we started producing our own cars, we could calculate the cost of each component in these cars very well. For example, the 7.3.4 sound system we provide, each speaker uses the highest industry standard, with a power of 2,160 watts. Such a set of sound system, not to mention 7.3.4, even the 5.1 in luxury brands used to cost about 60,000 to 70,000 RMB as an extra option, and if you try it, the effect is really not as good as ours.The difference in our products’ cost is not significant compared with other automobile companies, and it depends on using 7.3.4 rather than 5.1. But where does the difference come from? It is due to those expensive optional speaker systems that you see, which have an annual installation volume of only a few hundred sets in the Chinese market, and they appear in different cars, each of which incurs different R&D costs. Actually, it is not necessarily because they are expensive, but because of their business model. Every set of speakers has to share a lot of R&D costs, even up to tens of thousands of yuan, so it has formed such a pattern. However, if we make them standard equipment for each car, it means that if I sell 150,000 L9s per year, the cost per car may only be 100-200 yuan, so we can smoothly make them standard.
In fact, such a concept of standardization is the same. Let me give you another example. Our suppliers were surprised because the price of Ideal ONE is almost the same as the starting price of Audi Q7 in the global market. But Audi Q7 has four-cylinder gasoline/diesel, six-cylinder gasoline/diesel, eight-cylinder gasoline/diesel, and even hybrid versions. Its seats have 5-seat and 7-seat versions, and the 5-seat version has various configurations. You can calculate that Audi Q7 sells about 3,000-5,000 cars globally, and the R&D costs for different seats and configurations have to be shared among them. However, Ideal ONE sells more than 100,000 cars per year, with more than 10,000 cars per month, and only one set of parts. Therefore, the entire cost is completely different.
So we can boldly use this method to make those products that were previously considered unattainable, with prices of more than 1 million or 2 million yuan, into luxury mid-size car prices, so that everyone can afford them. This is the core concept we acquired after carefully studying Apple. Although Apple’s products are slightly expensive, the cost-effectiveness is very high, which is different from the cost-effectiveness represented by China, a developing country, making standardized products at very low prices for many years. These are two different cost-effectiveness factors that require different abilities from the enterprises. This is the method we have chosen.
In addition, we also consider for the customers. Whether you are running an automotive website, or as a customer who has bought dozens of cars, you always encounter various problems, such as a car has many different configurations and options, but when you are selecting them, you always feel like you are negotiating with the manufacturer. If you choose the highest configuration, you feel like you have paid too much; but if you choose the lowest configuration, you feel regretful. By using this standardized method, we bring three benefits: first, to avoid negotiation between customers and manufacturers; second, to make the entire cost of a car valuable as an asset, and it is equally valuable when you are exchanging for a new car.We do not use optional configuration, except for the necessary ones like pedals which are not needed for people with very high height. Those configurations like screen, HUD, ventilated and massaging seats, air suspension are not offered as optional because in the automotive industry, optional configuration will be cleared when resold as second-hand cars. Therefore, it is a cost, not an asset for users. As vehicles are assets, like the Ideal ONE which has a very high residual value, selling at 90% of its original price for the 2021 model, adding those configurations would also increase the residual value. In addition, it makes previously unattainable functions and configurations accessible to customers.
This is the core philosophy of Ideal Automotive in terms of product and configuration, which pays tribute to Apple’s choices from the bottom of our hearts.
Ideal Automotive’s Future Product Planning
Q: Are there any plans for OTA upgrades for the 2021 and 2020 Ideal ONE?
Li Xiang: There is no doubt that the Ideal ONE will continue to be upgraded.
Gou Xiaofei: There are still upgrade plans for the Ideal ONE, such as our self-developed MIMO_NET and acoustic technology, which will be directly applied to the Ideal ONE at the end of this year.
Q: Does the Max in AD Max and Ideal L9 Max have a special product naming meaning? Will there be lower-tier versions of the car models in the future?
Li Xiang: Max and Pro have been planned internally, and both our smart cockpit and smart driving will have two versions, Max and Pro, with Pro being a more cost-effective option. The L9 Max is the flagship version and the Ideal ONE configuration is defined as Pro. When two Maxes are combined, our vehicle type will be Max, and when two Pros are combined, our vehicle type will be Pro, which is very simple.
Conclusion
The above is the main content of the media communication meeting after the Ideal L9 launch, covering product definition, smart driving, smart cockpit, and whole vehicle electric.
Many people believe that Ideal’s success is based on precise positioning. While it is true, it is also important to have a proper understanding of the product itself, future cabin, space, and interaction practices, as shown in this communication meeting.At the end of the day, as the Ideal L9 launches its nationwide store tour and delivery, there will definitely be more and more information and experience reports about L9. Welcome everyone to click here to communicate and discuss with like-minded group members.
This article is a translation by ChatGPT of a Chinese report from 42HOW. If you have any questions about it, please email bd@42how.com.